On Saturday Dec. 1 we had our last book discussion for this year and it was probably one of the most intense discussions we've had so far. There were eight of us, three of which it was their first time attending. I mentioned the book Sing Unburied Sing by Jesmyn Ward in the last post and I honestly considered it to be a much "deeper" book than An American Marriage, but I have to admit after hearing what seven other people had to say, I see more in An American Marriage as I had previously.
Shelara pointed out for us the three paternal relationships that add nuance to the story:
Roy and Big Roy
Roy and Walter
Andre and Carlos
Shelara: "Walter is a fun house version of Big Roy"
After being released, Roy writes a letter to his biological father Walter asking him for advice. This is the first time Roy acknowledges Walter as a father. Up until then Roy only respected Big Roy, the father who had married his mother and adopted him, gave him his name and made him a junior. Walter, in Roy's mind, was a loser who walked out on his mom before he was born.When Roy had gone to his mother Olive's grave site, he heard Olive's voice in his head: "Real men didn't have any need for goodbyes." Andre's father, Carlos, had walked out on Andre and his mom as well.
Johanna, a first-timer to the discussion pointed out that she loved that you could hear each person's thoughts: Roy's, Celestial's, and Andre's separately. She said that made it more intimate. She also said that she feared that all the family situations would turn out bad. She mentioned (but didn't elaborate on) that there were differences between the types of sexual encounters: Roy and Davina's vs. Celestial and Andre's. She seemed to have implied that she was afraid violence would erupt because the work was by an African American author. Another first-timer to the group "called" her on that and there were some moments when I knew she was uncomfortable. (sign of a great book discussion?)
When Celestial announced to her father that she and Andre were getting married, (even though she was still married to Roy,) her father disapproved greatly but blamed himself, saying, "I indulged you too much...I let you think that every day was the weekend."
Although most of us agreed that Celestial was "flaky" we understood that there is a time for a woman to stand up for herself and not care about what others feel more than caring for herself. It's a tricky line to walk and Celestial was probably a bad example of self-care. Connie C. (another newcomer to the group) underscored this by pointing out that Celestial knew Andre loved her the whole time they were growing up but she didn't love him and never honestly acknowledged his feelings.
Shelara called our attention to the picture of the tree on the front cover of the book. "Old-Hickory" is featured throughout the story. One of the characters described how a limb from another tree was attached with great care and babying over time until it finally "took." In some cases like this, the attachment was never successful. Shelara said this about the tree: a tree is something that is solid and rooted. Roy and Celestial's marriage was never rooted." Beside having another woman's phone number in his pocket which Celestial found on their first anniversary and on another occasion finding the receipt for two pieces of lingerie, Roy describes himself as "the old me...running through women like water" implying that this trait didn't stop when he got married.
Connie C. contributed further, saying, "I look at the fight between Roy and Andre and the sex between Roy and Davina and I see Roy fulfilling a rage from within, having been unjustly imprisoned. Connie also pointed out that Roy and Celestial had the chemistry but they were from very different backgrounds, Celestial couldn't abide the cheating because of how she was reared, whereas Davina had more understanding for someone like Roy.
Laura brought up the topic of the dolls. She said they were "creepy."
Shelara contributed to Laura's comment, pointing out that Celestial had two abortions now she creates these dolls. She's a wife but not a wife. She's a mother (to these dolls) but she's not a mother.
Connie C. agreed, saying, "the dolls were easier than having children."
Shelara had issues with the character Davina. "She was desperate and had sex with a man just out of prison with no protection. That was a stereotype. She kept asking Roy if he was married and he kept saying he didn't know, yet she was angry when he went to Atlanta to try to reclaim his wife. Roy, before being imprisoned would have never looked at someone like Davina. "
Laura thought the ending was "pat" and I agreed.
Connie T.ended our discussion with wisdom, as she always does, saying "when Roy finds out that Celestial can't love him again, he sets out on a type of character improvement. There is a redemption and the idea of home.
Roy and Big Roy
Roy and Walter
Andre and Carlos
Shelara: "Walter is a fun house version of Big Roy"
After being released, Roy writes a letter to his biological father Walter asking him for advice. This is the first time Roy acknowledges Walter as a father. Up until then Roy only respected Big Roy, the father who had married his mother and adopted him, gave him his name and made him a junior. Walter, in Roy's mind, was a loser who walked out on his mom before he was born.When Roy had gone to his mother Olive's grave site, he heard Olive's voice in his head: "Real men didn't have any need for goodbyes." Andre's father, Carlos, had walked out on Andre and his mom as well.
Johanna, a first-timer to the discussion pointed out that she loved that you could hear each person's thoughts: Roy's, Celestial's, and Andre's separately. She said that made it more intimate. She also said that she feared that all the family situations would turn out bad. She mentioned (but didn't elaborate on) that there were differences between the types of sexual encounters: Roy and Davina's vs. Celestial and Andre's. She seemed to have implied that she was afraid violence would erupt because the work was by an African American author. Another first-timer to the group "called" her on that and there were some moments when I knew she was uncomfortable. (sign of a great book discussion?)
When Celestial announced to her father that she and Andre were getting married, (even though she was still married to Roy,) her father disapproved greatly but blamed himself, saying, "I indulged you too much...I let you think that every day was the weekend."
Although most of us agreed that Celestial was "flaky" we understood that there is a time for a woman to stand up for herself and not care about what others feel more than caring for herself. It's a tricky line to walk and Celestial was probably a bad example of self-care. Connie C. (another newcomer to the group) underscored this by pointing out that Celestial knew Andre loved her the whole time they were growing up but she didn't love him and never honestly acknowledged his feelings.
Shelara called our attention to the picture of the tree on the front cover of the book. "Old-Hickory" is featured throughout the story. One of the characters described how a limb from another tree was attached with great care and babying over time until it finally "took." In some cases like this, the attachment was never successful. Shelara said this about the tree: a tree is something that is solid and rooted. Roy and Celestial's marriage was never rooted." Beside having another woman's phone number in his pocket which Celestial found on their first anniversary and on another occasion finding the receipt for two pieces of lingerie, Roy describes himself as "the old me...running through women like water" implying that this trait didn't stop when he got married.
Connie C. contributed further, saying, "I look at the fight between Roy and Andre and the sex between Roy and Davina and I see Roy fulfilling a rage from within, having been unjustly imprisoned. Connie also pointed out that Roy and Celestial had the chemistry but they were from very different backgrounds, Celestial couldn't abide the cheating because of how she was reared, whereas Davina had more understanding for someone like Roy.
Laura brought up the topic of the dolls. She said they were "creepy."
Shelara contributed to Laura's comment, pointing out that Celestial had two abortions now she creates these dolls. She's a wife but not a wife. She's a mother (to these dolls) but she's not a mother.
Connie C. agreed, saying, "the dolls were easier than having children."
Shelara had issues with the character Davina. "She was desperate and had sex with a man just out of prison with no protection. That was a stereotype. She kept asking Roy if he was married and he kept saying he didn't know, yet she was angry when he went to Atlanta to try to reclaim his wife. Roy, before being imprisoned would have never looked at someone like Davina. "
Laura thought the ending was "pat" and I agreed.
Connie T.ended our discussion with wisdom, as she always does, saying "when Roy finds out that Celestial can't love him again, he sets out on a type of character improvement. There is a redemption and the idea of home.
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